Gosala.

'Out of fear your devout man will not stay in houses for travellers or in public garden-houses; for in such places he would meet with many clever people, with lower or nobler men, with talkative or silent ones. (15)

'He will not stay there because he fears lest some men, wise, well instructed, learned, who are well versed in the sacred texts and their meaning, should put questions to him.' (16)

Ardraka.

"Doing nothing without a purpose, nor without consideration, neither on the behest of the king nor from fear of anybody, he answers questions or not (according to the circumstances); but he (answers) worthy people with a definite purpose (in his mind). (17)

"He, the wise man, impartially teaches (the Law) whether he goes (to his pupils) or not; because unworthy men have fallen from the true faith, he does not go to places (frequented by them)." (18)

Gosala.

'As a merchant desirous of gain (shows) his wares and attracts a crowd to do business, in a similar way (acts) the devout Jnatriputra. This is what I think and calculate about it.' (19)

Ardraka.

"(Mahavira) acquires no new (burden of sin), he puts away the old, avoiding wrong opinions; and thus the saviour said to others: Herein is contained the vow (leading to) God (that is, salvation); this is the gain which a devout man is desirous of. Thus I say. (20)

"A merchant kills living beings and desires property; not leaving his kinsmen, he attracts a crowd in order to do business. (21)

"Desiring riches and addicted to sensuality, merchants wander about to earn their living. But we (say) that they are passionately fond of pleasures, unworthy, and desiring the enjoyment of love. (22)

"They do not abstain from slaughter and the acquirement of property, they are in bondage and full of wickedness; and their gain of which you spoke, will be endless afflictions and pains manifold. (23)

"They do not always make profit, nor does it last for ever; they meet with both results (success and failure) in their quest of gain. The profit (of the teacher), however, has a beginning, but no end; the saviour and sage shares his profit (with others). (24)

"Him who kills no (living beings), who has compassion on all creatures, who is well grounded in the Law, and causes the truth of the Law to be known, him you would equal to those wicked men! This is the outcome of your folly." (25)

A Buddhist.

'If (a savage) thrusts a spit through the side of a granary, mistaking it for a man; or through a gourd, mistaking it for a baby, and roasts it, he will be guilty of murder according to our views. (26)

'If a savage puts a man on a spit and roasts him, mistaking him for a fragment of the granary; or a baby, mistaking him for a gourd, he will not be guilty of murder according to our views. (27)

'If anybody thrusts a spit through a man or a baby, mistaking him for a fragment of the granary, puts him on the fire, and roasts him, that will be a meal fit for Buddhists to break fast upon. (28)

'Those who always feed two thousand worthy monks, acquire great merit and become powerful in the high ranks of the Garden.' (29)

Ardraka.

"Well-controlled men cannot accept (your denial of) guilt incurred by (unintentionally) doing harm to living beings. It will cause error and no good to both who teach such doctrines and who believe them. (30)

"A man who knows the nature of movable and immovable living beings, above, below, and on earth, who is afraid of injuring them and abstains from wicked deeds, may speak and act (in accordance with our Law); he will not be guilty of any (sin). (31)

"It is impossible to mistake (a fragment of the granary) for a man; only an unworthy man can say it. How can (the idea of a man) be produced by a fragment of the granary? Even to utter this is an untruth. (32)

"Do not use such speech by means of which you do evil; for such speech is incompatible with virtues. No ordained (man) should speak empty words. (33)

"Oh! you have explored this subject; you have thoroughly examined the consequences of acts of living beings; your (fame) reaches the Eastern and Western oceans; you view (the universe as if) it stood on the palm of your hands! (34)

"Thoroughly examining the consequences of acts of living beings, (our devout) have found out a pure way of sustaining life. It is a maxim of the devout of our creed, that nobody who lives by secret sins, should lay down the Law. (35)

"A man who always feeds two thousand worthy monks, does not control himself, and will be blamed in this world like a man with bloody hands. (36)

"They kill a fattened sheep, and prepare food for the sake of a particular person; they season the meat with salt and oil, and dress it with pepper. (37)

"You are irreligious, unworthy men, devoted to foolish pleasures, who say that partaking heartily of this meat you are not soiled by sin. (38)

"All who partake of such food, commit sins in their ignorance; but the wise do nothing of the kind. Even to utter it is an untruth. (39)

"In compassion to all beings, the seers, the Jnatriputras, avoid what is sinful; afraid of it, they abstain from food especially prepared for them. (40)

"They abstain from wicked deeds, afraid of injuring living beings, and do no harm to any creature; therefore they do not partake of such food. This is a maxim of the devout of our creed. (41)

"(Having reached) this perfection in the Law of the Nirgranthas and standing firm in it, one should live without deceit. The awakened sage who is endowed with all virtues thereby obtained very great fame." (42)

A Vedic Priest.

'Those who always feed two thousand holy mendicants, acquire great merit and become angels. This is the teaching of the Veda.' (43)

Ardraka.

"He who always feeds two thousand holy cats (that is, Brahmins), will have to endure great pains in Hell, being surrounded by hungry (beasts). (44)

"He who despises the Law that enjoins compassion, and praises the Law that permits slaughter, and who feeds but a single unprincipled man, even if he be a king, will go to darkness, and not to the Garden." (45)

A Vedantin.

'Both of us follow (very much the same) Law; we stood firm in it, and shall do so in the time to come; (we believe that) virtue consists in good conduct, and that knowledge (is necessary for salvation); and with regard to the Judgement there is no difference between us. (46)

'(But we assume) an invisible, great, eternal, imperishable, and indestructible Soul, who excels all other beings in every respect, as the moon excels the stars.' (47)

Ardraka.

"(If there were but one Soul common to all beings) they could not be known (from one another), nor could they experience different lots; there would not be scholars, rulers, merchants, and servants, insects, birds, and snakes; all would be men and angels. (48)

"Those who do not know all things, but who being ignorant teach a Law (of their own), are lost themselves, and work the ruin of others in this dreadful, boundless affliction. (49)

"Those who know all things by full knowledge, and who practising meditation teach the whole Law, are themselves saved and save others. (50)

"You have, in your mind, made equal both those who lead a blameable life, and those who in this world practise right conduct. Friend, you are deluded." (51)

A Hastitapasa.

'Every year we kill one big elephant with an arrow, and live upon it in order to spare the life of other animals.' (52)

Ardraka.

"If every year you kill but one animal without abstaining from sin, though you are not guilty of the slaughter of other creatures, there is little difference between you and a householder. (53)

"If a man kills every year but one animal, and lives (in other respects) as a devout man, he is unworthy, and works his perdition. Such men will not attain to full knowledge." (54)

A (man) who has achieved his religious perfection through the instruction of the Awakened One, and stands firm in it, who guards himself in the threefold way (that is, with regard to thoughts, words, and acts), and who possesses the things requisite for crossing the immense ocean of existence, may preach the Law. (55)

Thus I say.

Seventh Lecture,

Called

Nalanda.

At that time, at that period, there was a town of the name Rajagriha; it was rich, happy, thriving, &c. Outside of Rajagriha, in a north-eastern direction, there was the suburb Nalanda; it contained many hundreds of buildings, &c. (1)

In that suburb Nalanda there was a householder called Lepa; he was prosperous, famous; rich in high and large houses, beds, seats, vehicles, and chariots; abounding in riches, gold, and silver; possessed of useful and necessary things; wasting plenty of food and drink; owning many male and female slaves, cows, buffaloes, and sheep; and inferior to nobody. (2)

This householder Lepa, a follower of the devout, comprehended (the doctrine of) living beings and things without life, (&c, all as in II, 2, 76, down to the end of the paragraph). (3)

This householder Lepa possessed, in a north-eastern direction from the suburb Nalanda, a bathing-hall, called Seshadravya; it contained many hundreds of pillars, was beautiful, &c. In a north-eastern direction from this bathing-hall Seshadravya, there was a park called Hastiyama. (Description of the park.) (4)

And there in some house the Venerable Gautama was staying. The venerable (man) was in the garden, and so was Udaka, the son of Pedhala, a Nirgrantha and follower of Parsva, of the Medarya Gotra. He went there where the Venerable Gautama was, and said: 'O long-lived Gautama, I want to ask you about a point (of faith); O long-lived one, please explain it to me as it has been taught (by the Messenger).' And the Venerable Gautama spoke thus to Udaka, the son of Pedhala: "Well, long-lived one, I shall see about it, when I have heard and understood (your question)." And Udaka, the son of Pedhala, spoke thus to the Venerable Gautama: (5)

'O long-lived Gautama, there are Nirgrantha devout, called Kumaraputras, who profess your creed; they make a zealous householder, a follower of the devout, renounce injury to movable beings except on the order (from an established authority), as the householder caused one of the captured thieves to be set free. Those who make this renunciation, make a bad renunciation; those who cause this renunciation to be made, cause a bad renunciation to be made; in causing another to make this renunciation, they annul their own allegation. Why do I say this? Beings change their condition; though they be (now) immovable beings, they will (some time) become movable ones, or though they be (now) movable beings, they will become immovable ones; when they leave the condition of immovable beings, they will pass into that of movable ones, and when they leave the condition of movable beings, they will pass into that of immovable ones. When they are in the condition of immovable beings, it is no sin to kill them. (6)

'(But if they make him renounce) injury to creatures which are, for the time being, movable beings, except on the order (from an established authority) — as the householder caused one of the captured thieves to be set free — (if they take this vow), those who make this renunciation, make a good renunciation; those who cause this renunciation to be made, cause a good renunciation to be made; in causing another to make this renunciation, they do not annul their own allegation. Though in this way a correct expression is found, some (devout men) from anger or greed cause the householder to make the renunciation (without the necessary restriction). Is not this our interpretation right? O long-lived Gautama, do you approve of it?' (7)

And Gautama spoke thus to Udaka, the son of Pedhala: "O long-lived Udaka, we certainly do not approve of it. The devout or scholars who say thus, speak thus, declare thus, and explain thus, do not speak as devout men or Nirgranthas, they speak noxious speech. They mislead laymen. They make void all vows undertaken for sparing particular living beings. Why do I say this? Beings change their condition; though they be (now) immovable beings, they will (some time) become movable ones, (&c., all as in § 6, down to) when they leave the condition of movable beings, they will pass into that of immovable ones. When they are in the condition of movable beings, it is a sin to kill them." (8)

And Udaka, the son of Pedhala, spoke thus: 'Which beings do you call movable beings? movable ones or others?'

And Gautama spoke thus to Udaka, the son of Pedhala: "O long-lived Udaka, what you call beings which are, for the time being, movable ones, we call movable beings; and what we call movable beings, you call beings which are, for the time being, movable ones. Both expressions are equal, and mean the same thing. O long-lived one, why do you think it more correct to say: beings which are, for the time being, movable ones; and why do you think it incorrect to say: movable beings, that you censure the one expression, and applaud the other? This your interpretation is not right. (9)

"And the Venerable Messenger has spoken thus: Some men there are who say: we cannot, submitting to the tonsure, renounce the life of a householder and enter the monastic state, but we shall gradually conform to the community of the devout. Accordingly they make known the limits, fix the limits, determine the limits (beyond which they will not go in the enjoyment of worldly goods); and renounce injury to movable beings, except on the order (of an established authority) — as the householder caused one of the captured thieves to be set free. And this turns out to their benefit. (10)

"Movable beings are called so, when they get this character through the taking effect of what God has decreed for movable beings. But when their duration of life as movable beings comes to its close, they leave this life, and are made again in a new form by God's decree. Immovable beings are called so, when they get this character through the taking effect of what God has decreed for immovable beings. But when their duration of life as an immovable being comes to its close, they leave this life; they are (then) called animated beings, (animals) of large bodies, or of long life." (11)

And Udaka, the son of Pedhala, spoke thus to the Venerable Gautama: 'Is there not a chance, that a follower of the devout, though he has renounced slaughter of but one class of living beings, ceases altogether to injure any? Why do I say this? Beings change their condition, though they be (now) immovable beings, they will (some time) become movable ones, and though they be movable beings, they will become immovable ones. When they leave the condition of immovable beings, all pass into that of movable ones, and when they leave the condition of movable beings, all will pass into that of immovable ones. When they are in the condition of immovable beings, they may be killed.' (12)

And the Venerable Gautama spoke thus to Udaka, the son of Pedhala: "O long-lived one, we do not admit what you say; namely that there is a chance that a follower of the devout should cease to do injury to any kind of living beings. Why do we say this? Beings change their condition, (&c, all as above, down to) when they are in the condition of movable beings, it is a sin to kill them. They are called animated beings, (animals) of large bodies, or of long life. There are always a great many animate beings, (the slaughter of) which a follower of the devout must renounce, there are none, (the slaughter of) which he need not renounce. If he ceases, or has done with, or has given up (injuring) the large class of movable beings, his renunciation is good. What you or somebody else says, that there is a chance of a layman's ceasing to do an injury altogether, by renouncing slaughter of one kind of beings; this interpretation of yours is not right." (13)

The Venerable One gave an illustration: "I put a question to the Nirgranthas: O long-lived ones, (suppose) there be some men who have made the following declaration: 'I shall not inflict punishment on those who, submitting to the tonsure, renounce the life of a householder and enter the monastic state; but I shall inflict punishment on those who lead a domestic life.' Some devout man, who for four or five years, or for six or ten years — the period may be shorter or longer — has wandered about in the land, returns to domestic life. Now answer me: does the man break his word when he puts to death this (renegade) householder?" 'Certainly not!' "It is just the same with a follower of the devout, who has renounced injury to movable beings, but not to immovable ones. If he kills immovable beings, he does not transgress his vow. This you acknowledge, O Nirgranthas, this you must acknowledge!" (14)

The Venerable One gave another illustration: "I put a question to the Nirgranthas. O long-lived Nirgranthas, (suppose) there be householders or sons of householders, born in respectable families, who come to you for instruction in the Law. Ought they to be instructed in the Law?" 'Yes, they should.' "When they have learned and understood this Law, will they say: this creed of the Nirgranthas is true, supreme, excellent, full of virtues, right, pure, it removes doubts, it is the road to salvation, liberation, peace; it is free from error and doubts, it is the road of those who are free from all misery; those who adopt it will reach salvation, (&c, all down to) be freed from all misery; exerting ourselves we shall control ourselves with regard to all kinds of living beings. — Will they speak thus?" 'Yes.' "Should such men be admitted to the order?" 'Yes, they should.' "Should such men be instructed in the discipline and kept to attend to religious instruction?" 'Yes, they should.' "Do they renounce injury to every living being?" 'Yes, they do.' "Now (suppose) one of these men who lead such a life, after wandering about in the land for four or five years, or for six or ten years — the period may be shorter or longer — returns to domestic life. Will this man (still) abstain from doing injury to every living being?" 'No.' "The same man who at first (as a householder) had not renounced injury to every living being, who afterwards has renounced, and who now does not renounce injury to every living being, did at first not control himself, did so afterwards, and does not so now. As long as he does not control himself, he does not renounce injury to every living being. This you acknowledge, O Nirgranthas, this you must acknowledge!" (15)

The Venerable One gave (another) illustration: "I put a question to the Nirgranthas. O long-lived Nirgranthas, (suppose) there be men or women of other sects, who come to you for instruction in the Law, (all as before, down to) attend to religious instruction." 'Yes, they should.' "Is it lawful to eat with such men?" 'Yes, it is.' "Now (suppose) some of these people who lead such a life, (&c, all as before, down to) return to domestic life. Is it lawful to eat with them then?" 'No, it is not.' "The same man with whom to eat was not lawful at first, was lawful afterwards, and is not lawful now, was not devout at first, was devout afterwards, and is not devout now. It is not lawful for Nirgrantha devout to eat together with him. This you acknowledge, O Nirgranthas; this you must acknowledge!" (16)

And the Venerable One spoke thus: "There are some followers of the devout, who have made this declaration: we cannot, submitting to the tonsure, renounce the life of a householder and enter the monastic state, but we shall strictly observe the Posaha on the fourteenth and the eighth days of each fortnight, (on the new-moon, and) full-moon days, we renounce gross ill-usage of living beings, grossly lying speech, gross taking of things not given, (unlawful) sexual intercourse, (unlimited) appropriation of property; we shall set limits to our desires in the two forms and in the three ways. They will also make the following renunciation: 'neither do nor cause anything (sinful) to be done for my sake.' Having (on Posaha-days) abstained from eating, drinking, bathing, and using beds or chairs, may they, on their decease, be said to make a (righteous) end of their life?" 'Certainly, they do make such an end of their life.' "They are called animated beings, (&c, all as in § 13, down to) this interpretation of yours is not right." (17)

The Venerable One spoke thus: "There are some followers of the devout, who have made this declaration: we cannot, submitting to the tonsure, renounce the life of a householder and enter the monastic state; we also cannot strictly observe the Posaha on the fourteenth and the eighth days of each fortnight, (on the days of new-moon) and full-moon; but while we are preparing ourselves for death by fasting, we shall abstain from food and drink without longing for the end; we shall renounce all ill-usage of living beings, all lying speech, all taking of things not given, all sexual intercourse, all property, (saying): 'neither do nor cause anything (sinful) to be done for my sake.' (All the rest as in the preceding paragraph.)" (18)

And the Venerable One spoke thus: "There are some men of great desires, great undertakings, &c., who do not abstain from all ill-usage of living beings, (&c, down to) from all property. During the whole time, from their taking the vows of a follower of the devout till their death, they abstain from injury to living beings. Then they die; in the life to come they receive the recompense of their deeds, and receive an evil lot. (The rest as before.)" (19)

And the Venerable One spoke thus: "There are some men of no desires, no undertakings, who abstain from all ill-usage of living beings, (&c, down to) from all property. During the whole time, from their taking the vows of a follower of the devout till their death, they abstain from injury to living beings. Then they die; in the life to come they receive the recompense of their deeds, and receive a happy lot. (The rest as before.)" (20)

And the Venerable One spoke thus: "There are some men of few desires, few undertakings, who abstain from ill-usage of one sort of living beings, (&c., down to) from one sort of property. During the whole time, (&c, the rest as in the last paragraph)." (21)

And the Venerable One spoke thus: "There are some men who live in woods, in huts, near villages, or practise some secret rites, who are not well controlled, do not well abstain (from slaying) all sorts of living beings. They employ speech that is true and untrue at the same time: do not beat me, beat others, (&c, all as in II, 2, 21, down to) having died at their allotted time, they are consigned to places of darkness among the rebellious and evil-doers. And when they are released therefrom, they will be found deaf and dumb or blind. They are called animated beings, (&c, the rest as in § 13)." (22)

And the Venerable One spoke thus: "There are some beings of a long life, which a follower of the devout abstains from injuring through life. They die after him. They are called animated beings, (&c, the rest as in § 13)." (23)

(The two next paragraphs treat in exactly the same way of beings of an equally long life, which die simultaneously with him, and of beings of a short life, which die before him.) (24, 25)

And the Venerable One spoke thus: "There are some followers of the devout, who have made this declaration: we are not able to strictly observe the Posaha-days, but we are able, when preparing ourselves for death by fasting, to abstain from food and drink without longing for the end. The vow of such a man is the Samayika Desavakasika: (he declares) in the morning: (I shall travel) only thus or thus far in an eastern, western, southern, northern direction. He renounces injury to all beings: I shall cause peace and security to all sorts of living beings.

"Within those (limits) the movable living beings, which the follower of the devout abstains from injuring till his death, will leave their life, and will then be found, within the same limits, as movable living beings, which the follower of the devout abstains from injuring till his death. With regard to them the follower of the devout has made a good renunciation. They are called animated beings, (&c, the rest as before). (26)

"The movable beings within those limits, &c., will, after their death, be found within the same limits as immovable beings, from injuring which without a purpose the follower of the devout abstains till death, but not with a purpose, (&c, the rest as before). (27)

"The movable beings within those limits, &c, will, after their death, be found, beyond those limits, as movable or immovable beings, (&c., the rest as before). (28)

"The immovable beings within those limits, &c, will, after their death, be found, within the same limits, as movable beings, (&c, the rest as before). (29)

"The immovable beings within those limits, &c, will, after their death, be found, within the same limits, as immovable beings, (&c, the rest as before). (30)

"The immovable beings within those limits, &c, will, after their death, be found, beyond those limits, as immovable beings, (&c, the rest as before). (31)

"The movable and immovable beings beyond those limits, &c, will, after their death, be found, within those limits, as movable beings, (&c, the rest as before). (32)

"The movable and immovable beings beyond those limits, &c, will, after their death, be found, within those limits, as immovable beings, (&c, the rest as before). (33)

"The movable and immovable beings beyond those limits, &c, will, after their death, be found, beyond those limits, as movable and immovable beings, (&c. the rest as before)." (34)

The Venerable One spoke thus: "It has never happened, it does not happen, nor will it ever happen, that all movable beings will die out and become immovable ones, nor that all immovable beings die out and become movable ones. Since movable and immovable beings never die out, there is no chance, as you or somebody else say, that a layman ceases to do injury altogether by renouncing slaughter of one kind of beings; this interpretation of yours is not right." (35)

And the Venerable One spoke thus: "If (a man) who has been instructed in right knowledge, faith, and conduct for the avoidance of sins, blames a (righteous) devout man or scholar though he is well disposed towards them, he effects the loss of his merit for the next world; but if he does not blame them, he heightens the purity of his merit for the next world."

On this Udaka, the son of Pedhala, took no further notice of the Venerable Gautama and was about to return in the direction in which he had come. (36)

And the Venerable One spoke thus: "O long-lived Udaka, he who has learned from a devout man or scholar whomsoever even one noble religious truth, and considers himself thereby furthered with regard to his peace and happiness, will respect, acknowledge, praise, salute, honour, and reverence him as a blessed and holy teacher." (37)

Then Udaka, the son of Pedhala, spoke thus to the Venerable Gautama: 'As I had not before known, heard, understood, and comprehended these words, I did not believe in the meaning (of your words), which I had never perceived nor heard nor understood nor appreciated, and which were never explained nor defined nor delivered nor made clear to me, nor pondered over by me. But now, Reverend Sir, as I do know, &c, these words which I have perceived, heard, &c, I believe, accept, and approve of their meaning. It is just as you say!' (38)

Then the Venerable Gautama spoke thus to Udaka, the son of Pedhala: "Believe it, sir; accept it, sir; approve of it, sir; it is just as we have said." Then Udaka, the son of Pedhala, spoke thus to the Venerable Gautama: 'I desire, Reverend Sir, in your presence to pass from the creed which enjoins four vows, to the creed which enjoins the five great vows and the Pratikramana.' (39)

Then the Venerable Gautama went with Udaka, the son of Pedhala, to the Venerable Messenger Mahavira. Then Udaka, the son of Pedhala, solemnly circumambulated the Venerable Messenger Mahavira three times from the left to the right, and having done so he honoured him, and then he spoke thus: 'I desire, Reverend Sir, in your presence to pass from the creed which enjoins four vows, to the creed which enjoins the five great vows and the Pratikramana. May it so please you, noble sir, do not deny me!' Then, in the presence of the Venerable Messenger Mahavira, Udaka, the son of Pedhala, passed from the creed which enjoins four vows, to the creed which enjoins the five great vows and the Pratikramana. (40)

Thus I say.