dn24:2 Bhaggava, I understand the origin of the world. I understand this, and what goes beyond it. Yet since I do not misapprehend that understanding, I have realized quenching within myself. Directly knowing this, the Realized One does not come to ruin. There are some ascetics and brahmins who describe the origin of the world in their denomination as created by a Great Angel who claims to be the Maker. I go up to them and say, ‘Is it really true that this is the venerables’ view?’ And they answer, ‘Yes’. I say to them, ‘But how do you describe in your denomination that the origin of the world came about as created by that Great Angel?’ But they are stumped by my question, and they even question me in return. So I answer them, ‘There comes a time when, reverends, after a very long period has passed, this cosmos contracts. As the cosmos contracts, sentient beings are mostly headed for the realm of sublime luminosity. There they are mind-made, feeding on rapture, self-radiant, wandering in midair, steadily glorious, and they remain like that for a very long time. There comes a time when, after a very long period has passed, this cosmos expands. As it expands an empty mansion of the Great Angel appears. Then a certain sentient being—due to the running out of their life-span or merit—passes away from that host of luminous angels and appears in that empty mansion. There they are mind-made, feeding on rapture, self-radiant, wandering in midair, steadily glorious, and they remain like that for a very long time. But after staying there all alone for a long time, they become dissatisfied and anxious, “Oh, if only other beings would come to this place.” Then other sentient beings—due to the running out of their life-span or merit—pass away from that host of luminous angels and appear in that mansion in company with that being. There they too are mind-made, feeding on rapture, self-radiant, wandering in midair, steadily glorious, and they remain like that for a very long time. Now, the being who appeared there first thinks, “I am the Great Angel, the Vanquisher, the Unvanquished, the Universal Seer, the Wielder of Power, the Maker, the Creator, the First, the Controller, the Lord of those who have been born and those yet to be born. And these beings were created by me. Why is that? Because first I thought, ‘Oh, if only other beings would come to this place.’ Such was my heart’s wish, and then these creatures came to this place.” And the beings who appeared there later also think, “This must be the Great Angel, the Vanquisher, the Unvanquished, the Universal Seer, the Wielder of Power, the Maker, the Creator, the First, the Controller, the Lord of those who have been born and those yet to be born. And we were created by him. Why is that? Because we see that he appeared here first, and we arrived later.” And the being who was reborn first is more long-lived, beautiful, and illustrious than those who arrived later. It’s possible that one of those beings imagines that he passed away from that host and arrived in this place. Having done so, they go forth from the lay life to homelessness. By dint of keen, resolute, committed, and diligent effort, and right application of mind, they experience an immersion of the heart of such a kind that they imagine they recollect that former state, but no further. They say: “He who is the Great Angel—the Vanquisher, the Unvanquished, the Universal Seer, the Wielder of Power, the Maker, the Creator, the First, the Controller, the Lord of those who have been born and those yet to be born—by him we were created. He is permanent, everlasting, eternal, imperishable, remaining the same for all eternity. We who were created by that being are impermanent, not lasting, short-lived, liable to pass away, and have come to this place.” Is this how you describe in your denomination that the origin of the world came about as created by that Great Angel?’ They say, ‘That is what we have heard, Reverend Gotama, just as you say.’ Bhaggava, I understand the origin of the world. I understand this, and what goes beyond it. Yet since I do not misapprehend that understanding, I have realized quenching within myself. Directly knowing this, the Realized One does not come to ruin. There are some ascetics and brahmins who describe the origin of the world in their denomination as due to those depraved by play. I go up to them and say, ‘Is it really true that this is the venerables’ view?’ And they answer, ‘Yes’. I say to them, ‘But how do you describe in your denomination that the origin of the world came about due to those depraved by play?’ But they are stumped by my question, and they even question me in return. So I answer them, ‘Reverends, there are beings named “depraved by play”. They spend too much time laughing, playing, and making merry. And in doing so, they lose their mindfulness, and they pass away from that host of beings. It’s possible that one of those beings imagines that he passed away from that host and arrived in this place. Having done so, they go forth from the lay life to homelessness. By dint of keen, resolute, committed, and diligent effort, and right application of mind, they experience an immersion of the heart of such a kind that they imagine they recollect that former state, but no further. They say, “The beings not depraved by play don’t spend too much time laughing, playing, and making merry. So they don’t lose their mindfulness, and don’t pass away from that host of beings. They are permanent, everlasting, eternal, imperishable, remaining the same for all eternity. But we who were depraved by play spent too much time laughing, playing, and making merry. In doing so, we lost our mindfulness, and passed away from that host of beings. We are impermanent, not lasting, short-lived, liable to pass away, and have come to this place.” Is this how you describe in your denomination that the origin of the world came about due to those depraved by play?’ They say, ‘That is what we have heard, Reverend Gotama, just as you say.’ Bhaggava, I understand the origin of the world. Directly knowing this, the Realized One does not come to ruin. There are some ascetics and brahmins who describe the origin of the world in their denomination as due to those who are malevolent. I go up to them and say, ‘Is it really true that this is the venerables’ view?’ And they answer, ‘Yes’. I say to them, ‘But how do you describe in your denomination that the origin of the world came about due to those who are malevolent?’ But they are stumped by my question, and they even question me in return. So I answer them, ‘Reverends, there are beings named “malevolent”. They spend too much time gazing at each other, so they grow angry with each other, and their bodies and minds get tired. They pass away from that host of beings. It’s possible that one of those beings imagines that he passed away from that host and arrived in this place. Having done so, they go forth from the lay life to homelessness. By dint of keen, resolute, committed, and diligent effort, and right application of mind, they experience an immersion of the heart of such a kind that they imagine they recollect that former state, but no further. They say, “The beings who are not malevolent don’t spend too much time gazing at each other, so they don’t grow angry with each other, their bodies and minds don’t get tired, and they don’t pass away from that host of beings. They are permanent, everlasting, eternal, imperishable, remaining the same for all eternity. But we who were malevolent spent too much time gazing at each other, so our minds grew angry with each other, our bodies and minds got tired, and we passed away from that host of beings. We are impermanent, not lasting, short-lived, liable to pass away, and have come to this place.” Is this how you describe in your denomination that the origin of the world came about due to those who are malevolent?’ They say, ‘That is what we have heard, Reverend Gotama, just as you say.’ Bhaggava, I understand the origin of the world. Directly knowing this, the Realized One does not come to ruin. There are some ascetics and brahmins who describe the origin of the world in their denomination as having arisen as an anomaly. I go up to them and say, ‘Is it really true that this is the venerables’ view?’ And they answer, ‘Yes’. I say to them, ‘But how do you describe in your denomination that the origin of the world came about anomalously?’ But they are stumped by my question, and they even question me in return. So I answer them, ‘Reverends, there are beings named “non-percipient beings”. When perception arises they pass away from that host of beings. It’s possible that one of those beings imagines that he passed away from that host and arrived in this place. Having done so, they go forth from the lay life to homelessness. By dint of keen, resolute, committed, and diligent effort, and right application of mind, they experience an immersion of the heart of such a kind that they recollect the arising of perception, but no further. They say, “The self and the cosmos arose anomalously. Why is that? Because formerly I didn’t exist, whereas now, having not existed, I’ve transformed into the state of existing.” Is this how you describe in your denomination that the origin of the world came about anomalously?’ They say, ‘That is what we have heard, Reverend Gotama, just as you say.’ I understand this, and what goes beyond it. Yet since I do not misapprehend that understanding, I have realized quenching within myself. Directly knowing this, the Realized One does not come to ruin. Though I state and assert this, certain ascetics and brahmins misrepresent me with the incorrect, hollow, false, untruthful claim: ‘The ascetic Gotama has a distorted perspective, and so have his monks. He says, “When one enters and remains in the liberation of the beautiful, at that time one only perceives what is ugly.”’ But I don’t say that. I say this: ‘When one enters and remains in the liberation of the beautiful, at that time one only perceives what is beautiful.’” “They are the ones with a distorted perspective, sir, who regard the Buddha and the mendicants in this way. Sir, I am quite confident that the Buddha is capable of teaching me so that I can enter and remain in the liberation on the beautiful.” “It’s hard for you to enter and remain in the liberation on the beautiful, since you have a different view, creed, and belief, and another discipline and denomination. Come on, Bhaggava, carefully preserve the confidence that you have in me.” “If it’s hard for me to enter and remain in the liberation on the beautiful, since I have a different view, creed, and belief, and another discipline and denomination. I shall carefully preserve the confidence that I have in the Buddha.” That is what the Buddha said. Satisfied, the wanderer of the Bhaggava clan approved what the Buddha said.