dn23:20 “Even though the worthy Kassapa says this, still I think that there is no afterlife.” “Can you prove it?” “I can.” “How, exactly, chieftain?” “Suppose they were to arrest a bandit, a criminal and present him to me, saying, ‘Sir, this is a bandit, a criminal. Punish him as you will.’ I say to them, ‘Well then, worthy sir, cut open this man’s outer skin. Hopefully we might see his soul.’ They cut open his outer skin, but we see no soul. I say to them, ‘Well then, worthy sir, cut open his inner skin, flesh, sinews, bones, or marrow. Hopefully we’ll see his soul.’ They do so, but we see no soul. This is how I prove that there is no afterlife.”

2.10. The Simile of the Fire-Worshiping Matted-Hair Ascetic

dn23:21 “Well then, chieftain, I shall give you a simile. For by means of a simile some sensible people understand the meaning of what is said. Once upon a time, a certain fire-worshiping matted-hair ascetic settled in a leaf hut in a wilderness region. Then a caravan came out from a certain country. It stayed for one night not far from that ascetic’s hermitage, and then moved on. The ascetic thought, ‘Why don’t I go to that caravan’s campsite? Hopefully I’ll find something useful there.’ So he went, and he saw a little baby boy abandoned there. When he saw this he thought, ‘It’s not proper for me to look on while a human being dies. Why don’t I bring this boy back to my hermitage, nurse him, provide for him, and raise him?’ So that’s what he did. When the boy was ten or twelve years old, the ascetic had some business come up in the country. So he said to the boy, ‘My dear, I wish to go to the country. Serve the sacred flame. Do not extinguish it. But if you should extinguish it, here is the hatchet, the firewood, and the bundle of drill-sticks. Light the fire and serve it.’ And having instructed the boy, the ascetic went to the country. But the boy was so engrossed in his play, the fire went out. He thought, ‘My father told me to serve the sacred flame. Why don’t I light it again and serve it?’ So he chopped the bundle of drill-sticks with the hatchet, thinking, ‘Hopefully I’ll get a fire!’ But he still got no fire. He split the bundle of drill-sticks into two, three, four, five, ten, or a hundred parts. He chopped them into splinters, pounded them in a mortar, and swept them away in a strong wind, thinking, ‘Hopefully I’ll get a fire!’ But he still got no fire. Then the matted-hair ascetic, having concluded his business in the country, returned to his own hermitage, and said to the boy, ‘I trust, my dear, that the fire didn’t go out?’ And the boy told him what had happened. Then the ascetic thought, ‘How foolish is this boy, how incompetent! For how on earth can he seek a fire so irrationally?’ So while the boy looked on, he took a bundle of fire-sticks, lit the fire, and said, ‘Dear boy, this is how to light a fire. Not the foolish and incompetent way you sought it so irrationally.’ In the same way, chieftain, being foolish and incompetent, you seek the other world irrationally. Let go of this harmful misconception, chieftain, let go of it! Don’t create lasting harm and suffering for yourself!”

dn23:22 “Even though the worthy Kassapa says this, still I’m not able to let go of that harmful misconception. King Pasenadi of Kosala knows my views, and so do foreign kings. If I let go of this harmful misconception, there will be some who say to me, ‘How foolish is the chieftain Pāyāsi, how incompetent, that he should hold on to a mistake!’ I shall carry on with this view out of anger, contempt, and spite!”

2.11. The Simile of the Two Caravan Leaders

dn23:23 “Well then, chieftain, I shall give you a simile. For by means of a simile some sensible people understand the meaning of what is said. Once upon a time, a large caravan of a thousand wagons traveled from a country in the east to the west. Wherever they went they quickly used up the grass, wood, water, and the green foliage. Now, that caravan had two leaders, each in charge of five hundred wagons. They thought, ‘This is a large caravan of a thousand wagons. Wherever we go we quickly use up the grass, wood, water, and the green foliage. Why don’t we split the caravan in two halves?’ So that’s what they did. One caravan leader, having prepared much grass, wood, and water, started the caravan. After two or three days’ journey he saw a dark man with red eyes coming the other way in a donkey cart with muddy wheels. He was armored with a quiver and wreathed with yellow lotus, his clothes and hair all wet. Seeing him, he said, ‘Worthy sir, where do you come from?’ ‘From such-and-such a country.’ ‘And where are you going?’ ‘To the country named such-and-such.’ ‘But has there been much rain in the desert up ahead?’ ‘Indeed there has, worthy sir. The tracks are sprinkled with water, and there is much grass, wood, and water. Discard your grass, wood, and water. Your wagons will move swiftly when lightly-laden, so don’t tire your draught teams.’ So the caravan leader addressed his drivers, ‘This man says that there has been much rain in the desert up ahead. He advises us to discard the grass, wood, and water. The wagons will move swiftly when lightly-laden, and won’t tire our draught teams. So let’s discard the grass, wood, and water and restart the caravan with lightly-laden wagons.’ ‘Yes, worthy sir,’ the drivers replied, and that’s what they did. But in the caravan’s first campsite they saw no grass, wood, or water. And in the second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, and seventh campsites they saw no grass, wood, or water. And all fell to ruin and disaster. And the men and beasts in that caravan were all devoured by that non-human spirit. Only their bones were left over. Now, when the second caravan leader knew that the first caravan was well underway, he prepared much grass, wood, and water and started the caravan. After two or three days’ journey he saw a dark man with red eyes coming the other way in a donkey cart with muddy wheels. He was armored with a quiver and wreathed with yellow lotus, his clothes and hair all wet. Seeing him, he said, ‘Worthy sir, where do you come from?’ ‘From such-and-such a country.’ ‘And where are you going?’ ‘To the country named such-and-such.’ ‘But has there been much rain in the desert up ahead?’ ‘Indeed there has, worthy sir. The tracks are sprinkled with water, and there is much grass, wood, and water. Discard your grass, wood, and water. Your wagons will move swiftly when lightly-laden, so don’t tire your draught teams.’ So the caravan leader addressed his drivers, ‘This man says that there has been much rain in the desert up ahead. He advises us to discard the grass, wood, and water. The wagons will move swiftly when lightly-laden, and won’t tire our draught teams. But this person is neither our friend nor relative. How can we proceed out of trust in him? We shouldn’t discard any grass, wood, or water, but continue with our goods as laden. We shall not discard any old stock.’ ‘Yes, worthy sir,’ the drivers replied, and they restarted the caravan with the goods as laden. And in the caravan’s first campsite they saw no grass, wood, or water. And in the second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, and seventh campsites they saw no grass, wood, or water. And they saw the other caravan that had come to ruin. And they saw the bones of the men and beasts who had been devoured by that non-human spirit. So the caravan leader addressed his drivers, ‘This caravan came to ruin, as happens when guided by a foolish caravan leader. Well then, worthy sir, discard any of our merchandise that’s of little value, and take what’s valuable from this caravan.’ ‘Yes, worthy sir’ replied the drivers, and that’s what they did. They crossed over the desert safely, as happens when guided by an astute caravan leader. In the same way, chieftain, being foolish and incompetent, you will come to ruin seeking the other world irrationally, like the first caravan leader. And those who think you’re worth listening to and trusting will also come to ruin, like the drivers. Let go of this harmful misconception, chieftain, let go of it! Don’t create lasting harm and suffering for yourself!”

dn23:24 “Even though the worthy Kassapa says this, still I’m not able to let go of that harmful misconception. King Pasenadi of Kosala knows my views, and so do foreign kings. I shall carry on with this view out of anger, contempt, and spite!”

2.12. The Simile of the Dung-Carrier

dn23:25 “Well then, chieftain, I shall give you a simile. For by means of a simile some sensible people understand the meaning of what is said. Once upon a time, a certain swineherd went from his own village to another village. There he saw a large pile of dry dung abandoned. He thought, ‘This pile of dry dung can serve as food for my pigs. Why don’t I carry it off?’ So he spread out his upper robe, shoveled the dry dung onto it, tied it up into a parcel, lifted it on to his head, and went on his way. While on his way a large storm out of season poured down. Smeared with leaking, oozing dung down to his fingernails, he kept on carrying the load of dung. When people saw him they said, ‘Have you gone mad, lad? Have you lost your mind? For how on earth can you, smeared with leaking, oozing dung down to your fingernails, keep on carrying that load of dung?’ ‘You’re the mad ones, lads! You’re the ones who’ve lost your minds! For this will serve as food for my pigs.’ In the same way, chieftain, you seem like the dung carrier in the simile. Let go of this harmful misconception, chieftain, let go of it! Don’t create lasting harm and suffering for yourself!”

dn23:26 “Even though the worthy Kassapa says this, still I’m not able to let go of that harmful misconception. King Pasenadi of Kosala knows my views, and so do foreign kings. I shall carry on with this view out of anger, contempt, and spite!”

2.13. The Simile of the Gamblers

dn23:27 “Well then, chieftain, I shall give you a simile. For by means of a simile some sensible people understand the meaning of what is said. Once upon a time, two gamblers were playing with seed dice. One gambler, every time they took a bad hand, swallowed the losing seed. The second gambler saw him, and said, ‘Well, dear, you’ve won it all! Give me the seed dice, I will roll them.’ ‘Yes, dear,’ the gambler replied, and gave them. Then the gambler soaked the seed dice in poison and said to the other, ‘Come, dear, let’s play seed dice.’ ‘Yes, dear,’ the other gambler replied. And for a second time the gamblers played with seed dice. And for the second time, every time they took a bad hand, that gambler swallowed the losing seed. The second gambler saw him, and said, ‘The man swallows the dice without realizing they’re smeared with most terrible venom. Swallow, you damn cheat, swallow! Soon you’ll know the bitter fruit!’ In the same way, chieftain, you seem like the gambler in the simile. Let go of this harmful misconception, chieftain, let go of it! Don’t create lasting harm and suffering for yourself!”

dn23:28 “Even though the worthy Kassapa says this, still I’m not able to let go of that harmful misconception. King Pasenadi of Kosala knows my views, and so do foreign kings. I shall carry on with this view out of anger, contempt, and spite!”

2.14. The Simile of the Man Who Carried Hemp

dn23:29 “Well then, chieftain, I shall give you a simile. For by means of a simile some sensible people understand the meaning of what is said. Once upon a time, the inhabitants of a certain country emigrated. Then one friend said to another, ‘Come, dear, let’s go to that country. Hopefully we’ll get some riches there!’ ‘Yes, dear,’ the other replied. They went to that country, and to a certain deserted village. There they saw a pile of abandoned sunn hemp. Seeing it, one friend said to the other, ‘This is a pile of abandoned sunn hemp. Well then, dear, you make up a load of hemp, and I’ll make one too. Let’s both take a load of hemp and go on.’ ‘Yes, dear,’ he said. Carrying their loads of hemp they went to another deserted village. There they saw much sunn hemp thread abandoned. Seeing it, one friend said to the other, ‘This pile of abandoned sunn hemp thread is just what we wanted the hemp for! Well then, dear, let’s abandon our loads of hemp, and both take a load of hemp thread and go on.’ ‘I’ve already carried this load of hemp a long way, and it’s well tied up. It’s good enough for me, you understand.’ So one friend abandoned their load of hemp and picked up a load of hemp thread. They went to another deserted village. There they saw much sunn hemp cloth abandoned. Seeing it, one friend said to the other, ‘This pile of abandoned sunn hemp cloth is just what we wanted the hemp and hemp thread for! Well then, dear, let’s abandon our loads, and both take a load of hemp cloth and go on.’ ‘I’ve already carried this load of hemp a long way, and it’s well tied up. It’s good enough for me, you understand.’ So one friend abandoned their load of hemp thread and picked up a load of hemp cloth. They went to another deserted village. There they saw a pile of flax, and by turn, linen thread, linen cloth, cotton, cotton thread, cotton cloth, iron, copper, tin, lead, silver, and gold abandoned. Seeing it, one friend said to the other, ‘This pile of gold is just what we wanted all those other things for! Well then, dear, let’s abandon our loads, and both take a load of gold and go on.’ ‘I’ve already carried this load of hemp a long way, and it’s well tied up. It’s good enough for me, you understand.’ So one friend abandoned their load of silver and picked up a load of gold. Then they returned to their own village. When one friend returned with a load of sunn hemp, they didn’t please their parents, their partners and children, or their friends and colleagues. And they got no pleasure and happiness on that account. But when the other friend returned with a load of gold, they pleased their parents, their partners and children, and their friends and colleagues. And they got much pleasure and happiness on that account. In the same way, chieftain, you seem like the hemp-carrier in the simile. Let go of this harmful misconception, chieftain, let go of it! Don’t create lasting harm and suffering for yourself!”

3. Going for Refuge

dn23:30 “I was delighted and satisfied with your very first simile, worthy Kassapa! Nevertheless, I wanted to hear your various solutions to the problem, so I thought I’d oppose you in this way. Excellent, worthy Kassapa! Excellent! As if he were righting the overturned, or revealing the hidden, or pointing out the path to the lost, or lighting a lamp in the dark so people with clear eyes can see what’s there, the worthy Kassapa has made the teaching clear in many ways. I go for refuge to the worthy Gotama, to the teaching, and to the mendicant Saṅgha. From this day forth, may the worthy Kassapa remember me as a lay follower who has gone for refuge for life. Worthy Kassapa, I wish to perform a great sacrifice. Please instruct me so it will be for my lasting welfare and happiness.”

4. On Sacrifice

dn23:31 “Chieftain, take the kind of sacrifice where cattle, goats and sheep, chickens and pigs, and various kinds of creatures are slaughtered. And the recipients have wrong view, wrong thought, wrong speech, wrong action, wrong livelihood, wrong effort, wrong mindfulness, and wrong immersion. That kind of sacrifice is not very fruitful or beneficial or brilliant or bountiful. Suppose a farmer was to enter a wood taking seed and plough. And on that barren field, that barren ground, with uncleared stumps he sowed seeds that were broken, spoiled, weather-damaged, infertile, and ill kept. And the heavens don’t provide enough rain when needed. Would those seeds grow, increase, and mature, and would the farmer get abundant fruit?” “No, worthy Kassapa.” “In the same way, chieftain, take the kind of sacrifice where cattle, goats and sheep, chickens and pigs, and various kinds of creatures are slaughtered. And the recipients have wrong view, wrong thought, wrong speech, wrong action, wrong livelihood, wrong effort, wrong mindfulness, and wrong immersion. That kind of sacrifice is not very fruitful or beneficial or brilliant or bountiful. But take the kind of sacrifice where cattle, goats and sheep, chickens and pigs, and various kinds of creatures are not slaughtered. And the recipients have right view, right thought, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, and right immersion. That kind of sacrifice is very fruitful and beneficial and brilliant and bountiful. Suppose a farmer was to enter a wood taking seed and plough. And on that fertile field, that fertile ground, with well-cleared stumps he sowed seeds that were intact, unspoiled, not weather-damaged, fertile, and well kept. And the heavens provide plenty of rain when needed. Would those seeds grow, increase, and mature, and would the farmer get abundant fruit?” “Yes, worthy Kassapa.” “In the same way, chieftain, take the kind of sacrifice where cattle, goats and sheep, chickens and pigs, and various kinds of creatures are not slaughtered. And the recipients have right view, right thought, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, and right immersion. That kind of sacrifice is very fruitful and beneficial and brilliant and bountiful.”

5. On the Student Uttara

dn23:32 Then the chieftain Pāyāsi set up an offering for ascetics and brahmins, for paupers, vagrants, supplicants, and beggars. At that offering such food as sour gruel with false black pepper was given, and rough clothes with knotted fringes. Now, it was a student named Uttara who organized that offering. When the offering was over he referred to it like this, “Through this offering may I be together with the chieftain Pāyāsi in this world, but not in the next.” Pāyāsi heard of this, so he summoned Uttara and said, “Is it really true, dear Uttara, that you referred to the offering in this way?” “Yes, worthy sir.” “But why? Don’t we who seek merit expect some result from the offering?” “At your offering such food as sour gruel with false black pepper was given, which you wouldn’t even want to touch with your foot, much less eat. And also rough clothes with knotted fringes, which you also wouldn’t want to touch with your foot, much less wear. Worthy sir, you’re dear and beloved to me. But how can I reconcile one so dear with something so disagreeable?” “Well then, dear Uttara, set up an offering with the same kind of food that I eat, and the same kind of clothes that I wear.” “Yes, worthy sir,” replied Uttara, and did so. So the chieftain Pāyāsi gave gifts carelessly, thoughtlessly, not with his own hands, giving the dregs. When his body broke up, after death, he was admitted to the company of the heavenly beings of the four great kings, in an empty palace of sirisa wood. But the student Uttara who organized the offering gave gifts carefully, thoughtfully, with his own hands, not giving the dregs. When his body broke up, after death, he was admitted to the company of the heavenly beings of the thirty-three.

6. The Heavenly Being Pāyāsi

dn23:33 Now at that time Venerable Gavampati would often go to that empty sirisa palace for the day’s meditation. Then the heavenly being Pāyāsi went up to him, bowed, and stood to one side. Gavampati said to him, “Who are you, reverend?” “Sir, I am the chieftain Pāyāsi.” “Didn’t you have the view that no one is raised after death, and there’s no fruit or result of good and bad deeds?” “It’s true, sir, I did have such a view. But Master Kassapa the Prince dissuaded me from that harmful misconception.” “But the student named Uttara who organized that offering for you—where has he gone?” “Sir, Uttara gave gifts carefully, thoughtfully, with his own hands, not giving the dregs. When his body broke up, after death, he was admitted to the company of the heavenly beings of the thirty-three. But I gave gifts carelessly, thoughtlessly, not with my own hands, giving the dregs. When my body broke up, after death, I was admitted to the company of the heavenly beings of the four great kings, in an empty sirisa palace. So, sir, when you’ve returned to the human realm, please announce this: ‘Give gifts carefully, thoughtfully, with your own hands, not giving the dregs. The chieftain Pāyāsi gave gifts carelessly, thoughtlessly, not with his own hands, giving the dregs. When his body broke up, after death, he was admitted to the company of the heavenly beings of the four great kings, in an empty palace of sirisa. But the student Uttara who organized the offering gave gifts carefully, thoughtfully, with his own hands, not giving the dregs. When his body broke up, after death, he was admitted to the company of the heavenly beings of the thirty-three.’”

dn23:34 So when Venerable Gavampati returned to the human realm he made that announcement.