an4.192:3 Take another individual who’s living with someone else. They come to know: ‘For a long time this venerable’s deeds have been intact, impeccable, spotless, and unmarred. Their deeds and behavior are consistent. This venerable is ethical, not unethical.’ That’s why I said that you can get to know a person’s ethics by living with them. But only after a long time, not a short time; only when attentive, not when inattentive; and only by the wise, not the witless.

an4.192:4 ‘You can get to know a person’s purity by dealing with them. …’ That’s what I said, but why did I say it? Take an individual who has dealings with someone else. They come to know: ‘This venerable deals with one person in one way. Then they deal with two, three, or many people each in different ways. They’re not consistent from one deal to the next. This venerable’s dealings are impure, not pure.’

an4.192:5 Take another individual who has dealings with someone else. They come to know: ‘This venerable deals with one person in one way. Then they deal with two, three, or many people each in the same way. They’re consistent from one deal to the next. This venerable’s dealings are pure, not impure.’ That’s why I said that you can get to know a person’s purity by dealing with them. …

an4.192:6 ‘You can get to know a person’s resilience in times of trouble. …’ That’s what I said, but why did I say it? Take someone who experiences loss of family, wealth, or health. But they don’t reflect: ‘Worldly life is like that. Incarnation is like that. That’s why the eight worldly conditions revolve around the world, and the world revolves around the eight worldly conditions: gain and loss, fame and disgrace, blame and praise, pleasure and pain.’ They sorrow and wail and lament, beating their breast and falling into confusion.

an4.192:7 Take someone else who experiences loss of family, wealth, or health. But they reflect: ‘Worldly life is like that. Incarnation is like that. That’s why the eight worldly conditions revolve around the world, and the world revolves around the eight worldly conditions: gain and loss, fame and disgrace, blame and praise, pleasure and pain.’ They don’t sorrow or wail or lament, beating their breast and falling into confusion. That’s why I said that you can get to know a person’s resilience in times of trouble. …

an4.192:8 ‘You can get to know a person’s wisdom by discussion. But only after a long time, not casually; only when attentive, not when inattentive; and only by the wise, not the witless.’ That’s what I said, but why did I say it? Take an individual who is discussing with someone else. They come to know: ‘Judging by this venerable’s approach, by what they’re getting at, and by how they discuss a question, they’re witless, not wise. Why is that? This venerable does not bring up a deep and meaningful saying that is peaceful, sublime, beyond the scope of logic, subtle, comprehensible to the astute. When this venerable speaks on Dhamma they’re not able to explain the meaning, either briefly or in detail. They can’t teach it, assert it, establish it, clarify it, analyze it, or reveal it. This venerable is witless, not wise.’

an4.192:9 Suppose a person with clear eyes was standing on the bank of a lake. They’d see a little fish rising, and think: ‘Judging by this fish’s approach, by the ripples it makes, and by its force, it’s a little fish, not a big one.’ In the same way, an individual who is discussing with someone else would come to know: ‘Judging by this venerable’s approach, by what they’re getting at, and by how they discuss a question, they’re witless, not wise. …’

an4.192:10 Take another individual who is discussing with someone else. They come to know: ‘Judging by this venerable’s approach, by what they’re getting at, and by how they discuss a question, they’re wise, not witless. Why is that? This venerable brings up a deep and meaningful saying that is peaceful, sublime, beyond the scope of logic, subtle, comprehensible to the astute. When this venerable speaks on Dhamma they’re able to explain the meaning, either briefly or in detail. They teach it, assert it, establish it, clarify it, analyze it, and reveal it. This venerable is wise, not witless.’

an4.192:11 Suppose a man with clear eyes was standing on the bank of a lake. He’d see a big fish rising, and think: ‘Judging by this fish’s approach, by the ripples it makes, and by its force, it’s a big fish, not a little one.’ In the same way, an individual who is discussing with someone else would come to know: ‘Judging by this venerable’s approach, by what they’re getting at, and by how they articulate a question, they’re wise, not witless. …’

an4.192:12 That’s why I said that you can get to know a person’s wisdom by discussion. But only after a long time, not casually; only when attentive, not when inattentive; and only by the wise, not the witless. These are the four things that can be known in four situations.”

20. The Great Chapter

With Bhaddiya

an4.193:1 At one time the Buddha was staying near Vesālī, at the Great Wood, in the hall with the peaked roof. Then Bhaddiya the Licchavi went up to the Buddha, bowed, sat down to one side, and said to him:

an4.193:2 “Sir, I have heard this: ‘The ascetic Gotama is deceitful. He knows a conversion trick, and uses it to convert the disciples of those of other religions.’ I trust those who say this repeat what the Buddha has said, and do not misrepresent him with an untruth? Is their explanation in line with the teaching? Are there any legitimate grounds for rebuttal and criticism?”

an4.193:3 “Please, Bhaddiya, don’t go by oral transmission, don’t go by lineage, don’t go by testament, don’t go by canonical authority, don’t rely on logic, don’t rely on inference, don’t go by reasoned train of thought, don’t go by the acceptance of a view after deliberation, don’t go by the appearance of competence, and don’t think ‘The ascetic is our respected teacher.’ But when you know for yourselves: ‘These things are unskillful, blameworthy, criticized by sensible people, and when you undertake them, they lead to harm and suffering’, then you should give them up.

an4.193:4 What do you think, Bhaddiya? Does greed come up in a person for their welfare or harm?” “Harm, sir.” “A greedy individual, overcome by greed, kills living creatures, steals, commits adultery, lies, and encourages others to do the same. Is that for their lasting harm and suffering?” “Yes, sir.”

an4.193:5 “What do you think, Bhaddiya? Does hate … or delusion … or aggression come up in a person for their welfare or harm?” “Harm, sir.” “An aggressive individual kills living creatures, steals, commits adultery, lies, and encourages others to do the same. Is that for their lasting harm and suffering?” “Yes, sir.”

an4.193:6 “What do you think, Bhaddiya, are these things skillful or unskillful?” “Unskillful, sir.” “Blameworthy or blameless?” “Blameworthy, sir.” “Criticized or praised by sensible people?” “Criticized by sensible people, sir.” “When you undertake them, do they lead to harm and suffering, or not? Or how do you see this?” “When you undertake them, they lead to harm and suffering. That’s how we see it.”

an4.193:7 “So, Bhaddiya, when we said: ‘Please, Bhaddiya, don’t go by oral transmission, don’t go by lineage, don’t go by testament, don’t go by canonical authority, don’t rely on logic, don’t rely on inference, don’t go by reasoned train of thought, don’t go by the acceptance of a view after deliberation, don’t go by the appearance of competence, and don’t think “The ascetic is our respected teacher.” But when you know for yourselves: “These things are unskillful, blameworthy, criticized by sensible people, and when you undertake them, they lead to harm and suffering”, then you should give them up.’ That’s what I said, and this is why I said it.

an4.193:8 Please, Bhaddiya, don’t rely on oral transmission … But when you know for yourselves: ‘These things are skillful, blameless, praised by sensible people, and when you undertake them, they lead to welfare and happiness’, then you should acquire them and keep them.

an4.193:9 What do you think, Bhaddiya? Does contentment … love … understanding … benevolence come up in a person for their welfare or harm?”

an4.193:10 “Welfare, sir.” “An individual who is benevolent—not overcome by aggression—doesn’t kill living creatures, steal, commit adultery, lie, or encourage others to do the same. Is that for their lasting welfare and happiness?” “Yes, sir.”

an4.193:11 “What do you think, Bhaddiya, are these things skillful or unskillful?” “Skillful, sir.” “Blameworthy or blameless?” “Blameless, sir.” “Criticized or praised by sensible people?” “Praised by sensible people, sir.” “When you undertake them, do they lead to welfare and happiness, or not? Or how do you see this?” “When you undertake them, they lead to welfare and happiness. That’s how we see it.”

an4.193:12 “So, Bhaddiya, when we said: ‘Please, Bhaddiya, don’t go by oral transmission, don’t go by lineage, don’t go by testament, don’t go by canonical authority, don’t rely on logic, don’t rely on inference, don’t go by reasoned train of thought, don’t go by the acceptance of a view after deliberation, don’t go by the appearance of competence, and don’t think “The ascetic is our respected teacher.” But when you know for yourselves: “These things are skillful, blameless, praised by sensible people, and when you undertake them, they lead to welfare and happiness”, then you should acquire them and keep them.’ That’s what I said, and this is why I said it.

an4.193:13 The good and true persons in the world encourage their disciples: ‘Please, my man, live rid of greed. Then you won’t act out of greed by way of body, speech, or mind. Live rid of hate … delusion … aggression. Then you won’t act out of hate … delusion … aggression by way of body, speech, or mind.”

an4.193:14 When he said this, Bhaddiya the Licchavi said to the Buddha, “Excellent, sir! … From this day forth, may the Buddha remember me as a lay follower who has gone for refuge for life.”

an4.193:15 “Well, Bhaddiya, did I say to you: ‘Please, Bhaddiya, be my disciple, and I will be your teacher’?” “No, sir.” “Though I state and assert this, certain ascetics and brahmins misrepresent me with the incorrect, hollow, false, untruthful claim: ‘The ascetic Gotama is deceitful. He knows a conversion trick, and uses it to convert the disciples of those of other religions.’” “Sir, this conversion trick is excellent. This conversion trick is lovely! If my loved ones—relatives and kin—were to be converted by this, it would be for their lasting welfare and happiness. If all the aristocrats, brahmins, peasants, and menials were to be converted by this, it would be for their lasting welfare and happiness.”

an4.193:16 “That’s so true, Bhaddiya! That’s so true, Bhaddiya! If all the aristocrats, brahmins, peasants, and menials were to be converted by this, it would be for their lasting welfare and happiness. If the whole world—with its angels and Satan, this population with its ascetics and brahmins, rulers and commoners—were to be converted by this, for giving up unskillful qualities and embracing skillful qualities, it would be for their lasting welfare and happiness. If these great sal trees were to be converted by this, for giving up unskillful qualities and embracing skillful qualities, it would be for their lasting welfare and happiness—if they were sentient. How much more then a human being!”

20. The Great Chapter

At Sāpūga

an4.194:1 At one time Venerable Ānanda was staying in the land of the Koliyans, where they have a town named Sāpūga. Then several Koliyans from Sāpūga went up to Ānanda, bowed, and sat down to one side. Then Venerable Ānanda said to them:

an4.194:2 “Byagghapajjas, these four factors of trying to be pure have been rightly explained by the Blessed One, who knows and sees, the perfected one, the fully awakened Buddha. They are in order to purify sentient beings, to get past sorrow and crying, to make an end of pain and sadness, to discover the system, and to realize extinguishment. What four? The factors of trying to be pure in ethics, mind, view, and freedom.

an4.194:3 And what is the factor of trying to be pure in ethics? It’s when a mendicant is ethical, restrained in the monastic code, conducting themselves well and resorting for alms in suitable places. Seeing danger in the slightest fault, they keep the rules they’ve undertaken. This is called purity of ethics. They think: ‘I will fulfill such purity of ethics, or, if it’s already fulfilled, I’ll support it in every situation by wisdom.’ Their enthusiasm for that—their effort, zeal, vigor, perseverance, mindfulness, and situational awareness—is called the factor of trying to be pure in ethics.

an4.194:4 And what is the factor of trying to be pure in mind? It’s when a mendicant, quite secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unskillful qualities, enters and remains in the first absorption … second absorption … third absorption … fourth absorption. This is called purity of mind. They think: ‘I will fulfill such purity of mind, or, if it’s already fulfilled, I’ll support it in every situation by wisdom.’ Their enthusiasm for that—their effort, zeal, vigor, perseverance, mindfulness, and situational awareness—is called the factor of trying to be pure in mind.

an4.194:5 And what is the factor of trying to be pure in view? Take a mendicant who truly understands: ‘This is suffering’ … ‘This is the origin of suffering’ … ‘This is the cessation of suffering’ … ‘This is the practice that leads to the cessation of suffering’. This is called purity of view. They think: ‘I will fulfill such purity of view, or, if it’s already fulfilled, I’ll support it in every situation by wisdom.’ Their enthusiasm for that—their effort, zeal, vigor, perseverance, mindfulness, and situational awareness—is called the factor of trying to be pure in view.

an4.194:6 And what is the factor of trying to be pure in freedom? That noble disciple—who has these factors of trying to be pure in ethics, mind, and view—detaches their mind from things that arouse greed, and frees their mind from things that it should be freed from. Doing so, they experience perfect freedom. This is called purity of freedom. They think: ‘I will fulfill such purity of freedom, or, if it’s already fulfilled, I’ll support it in every situation by wisdom.’ Their enthusiasm for that—their effort, zeal, vigor, perseverance, mindfulness, and situational awareness—is called the factor of trying to be pure in freedom.

an4.194:7 These four factors of trying to be pure have been rightly explained by the Blessed One, who knows and sees, the perfected one, the fully awakened Buddha. They are in order to purify sentient beings, to get past sorrow and crying, to make an end of pain and sadness, to discover the system, and to realize extinguishment.”

20. The Great Chapter

With Vappa

an4.195:1 At one time the Buddha was staying in the land of the Sakyans, near Kapilavatthu in the Banyan Tree Monastery. Then Vappa of the Sakyans, a disciple of the Jains, went up to Venerable Mahāmoggallāna, bowed, and sat down to one side. Mahāmoggallāna said to him:

an4.195:2 “Vappa, take an individual who, due to the fading away of ignorance and the arising of knowledge, is restrained in body, speech, and mind. Do you see any reason why defilements giving rise to painful feelings would defile that person in the hereafter?” “Sir, I do see such a case. Take someone who did bad deeds in earlier times. But the result of that has not yet ripened. For this reason defilements giving rise to painful feelings would defile that person in the hereafter.” But this conversation between Mahāmoggallāna and Vappa was left unfinished.

an4.195:3 Then in the late afternoon, the Buddha came out of retreat and went to the assembly hall. He sat down on the seat spread out, and said to Mahāmoggallāna,

an4.195:4 “Moggallāna, what were you sitting talking about just now? What conversation was left unfinished?” Moggallāna repeated the entire conversation to the Buddha, and concluded: “This was my conversation with Vappa that was unfinished when the Buddha arrived.”

an4.195:5 Then the Buddha said to Vappa, “Vappa, we can discuss this. But only if you grant what should be granted, and reject what should be rejected. And if you ask me the meaning of anything you don’t understand, saying: ‘Sir, why is this? What’s the meaning of that?’” “Sir, let us discuss this. I will do as you say.”

an4.195:6 “What do you think, Vappa? There are distressing and feverish defilements that arise because of instigating bodily activity. These don’t occur in someone who refrains from such bodily activity. They don’t perform any new deeds, and old deeds are eliminated by experiencing their results little by little. This wearing away is apparent in the present life, immediately effective, inviting inspection, relevant, so that sensible people can know it for themselves. Do you see any reason why defilements giving rise to painful feelings would defile that person in the hereafter?” “No, sir.”

an4.195:7 “What do you think, Vappa? There are distressing and feverish defilements that arise because of instigating verbal activity. These don’t occur in someone who refrains from such verbal activity. They don’t perform any new deeds, and old deeds are eliminated by experiencing their results little by little. This wearing away is apparent in the present life, immediately effective, inviting inspection, relevant, so that sensible people can know it for themselves. Do you see any reason why defilements giving rise to painful feelings would defile that person in the hereafter?” “No, sir.”

an4.195:8 “What do you think, Vappa? There are distressing and feverish defilements that arise because of instigating mental activity. These don’t occur in someone who refrains from such mental activity. They don’t perform any new deeds, and old deeds are eliminated by experiencing their results little by little. This wearing away is apparent in the present life, immediately effective, inviting inspection, relevant, so that sensible people can know it for themselves. Do you see any reason why defilements giving rise to painful feelings would defile that person in the hereafter?” “No, sir.”

an4.195:9 “What do you think, Vappa? There are distressing and feverish defilements that arise because of ignorance. These don’t occur when ignorance fades away and knowledge arises. They don’t perform any new deeds, and old deeds are eliminated by experiencing their results little by little. This wearing away is apparent in the present life, immediately effective, inviting inspection, relevant, so that sensible people can know it for themselves. Do you see any reason why defilements giving rise to painful feelings would defile that person in the hereafter?” “No, sir.”

an4.195:10 “A mendicant whose mind is rightly freed like this has achieved six consistent responses. Seeing a sight with their eyes, they’re neither happy nor sad, but remain equanimous, mindful and aware. Hearing a sound with their ears … Smelling an odor with their nose … Tasting a flavor with their tongue … Encountering a touch with their body … Knowing an idea with their mind, they’re neither happy nor sad, but remain equanimous, mindful and aware. Feeling the end of the body draw close, they understand: ‘I feel the end of the body draw close.’ Feeling the end of life draw close, they understand: ‘I feel the end of life draw close.’ They understand: ‘When my body breaks up and my life has come to an end, everything that’s felt, being no longer relished, will become cool right here.’

an4.195:11 Suppose there was a shadow cast by a post. Then along comes a person with a spade and basket. They cut down the post at its base, dig it up, and pull it out by its roots, right down to the fibers and stems. Then they split it apart, cut up the parts, and chop them into splinters. Next they dry the splinters in the wind and sun, burn them with fire, and reduce them to ashes. Then they whisk away the ashes in a strong wind, or glide them down a swift stream. And so the shadow cast by the post is cut off at the root, made like a palm stump, obliterated, and unable to arise in the future.

an4.195:12 In the same way, a mendicant whose mind is rightly freed like this has achieved six consistent responses. Seeing a sight with their eyes, they’re neither happy nor sad, but remain equanimous, mindful and aware. Hearing a sound with their ears … Smelling an odor with their nose … Tasting a flavor with their tongue … Encountering a touch with their body … Knowing an idea with their mind, they’re neither happy nor sad, but remain equanimous, mindful and aware. Feeling the end of the body draw close, they understand: ‘I feel the end of the body draw close.’ Feeling the end of life draw close, they understand: ‘I feel the end of life draw close.’ They understand: ‘When my body breaks up and my life has come to an end, everything that’s felt, being no longer relished, will become cool right here.’”

an4.195:13 When he said this, Vappa the Sakyan, the disciple of the Jains, said to the Buddha: “Sir, suppose there was a man who raised commercial horses for profit. But he never made any profit, and instead just got weary and frustrated. In the same way, I paid homage to those Jain fools for profit. But I never made any profit, and instead just got weary and frustrated. From this day forth, any confidence I had in those Jain fools I whisk away as in a strong wind, or glide away as down a swift stream. Excellent, sir! … From this day forth, may the Buddha remember me as a lay follower who has gone for refuge for life.”

20. The Great Chapter

With Sāḷha

an4.196:1 At one time the Buddha was staying near Vesālī, at the Great Wood, in the hall with the peaked roof. Then Sāḷha and Abhaya the Licchavis went up to the Buddha, bowed, sat down to one side, and said to him:

an4.196:2 “There are, sir, some ascetics and brahmins who advocate crossing the flood by means of two things: purification of ethics, and mortification in disgust of sin. What does the Buddha say about this?”

an4.196:3 “Sāḷha, purification of ethics is one of the factors of the ascetic life, I say. But those ascetics and brahmins who teach fervent mortification in disgust of sin—regarding it as essential and sticking to it—are incapable of crossing the flood. And those ascetics and brahmins whose livelihood and behavior by way of body, speech, and mind, is not pure are also incapable of knowing and seeing, of supreme awakening.

an4.196:4 Suppose a man who wanted to cross a river took a sharp axe into a wood. There he’d see a large green sal tree, straight and young and grown unskewed. He’d cut it down at the base, cut off the top, and completely strip off the branches and foliage. Then he’d trim it with axes and machetes, plane it, and sand it with a rock. Finally, he’d launch out on the river.

an4.196:5 What do you think, Sāḷha? Is that man capable of crossing the river?” “No, sir. Why not? Because that green sal tree is well worked on the outside, but inside it’s still not cleared out. I’d expect that green sal tree to sink, and the man to come to ruin.”

an4.196:6 “In the same way, Sāḷha, those ascetics and brahmins who teach fervent mortification in disgust of sin—regarding it as essential and sticking to it—are incapable of crossing the flood. And those ascetics and brahmins whose livelihood and behavior by way of body, speech, and mind is not pure are also incapable of knowing and seeing, of supreme awakening.

an4.196:7 But those ascetics and brahmins who don’t teach mortification in disgust of sin—not regarding it as essential or sticking to it—are capable of crossing the flood. And those ascetics and brahmins whose behavior by way of body, speech, and mind is pure are also capable of knowing and seeing, of supreme awakening.

an4.196:8 Suppose a man who wanted to cross a river took a sharp axe into a wood. There he’d see a large green sal tree, straight and young and grown unskewed. He’d cut it down at the base, cut off the top, and completely strip off the branches and foliage. Then he’d trim it with axes and machetes. Then he’d take a chisel and completely clear it out inside. Then he’d plane it, sand it with a rock, and make it into a boat. Finally he’d fix it with oars and rudder, and launch out on the river.

an4.196:9 What do you think, Sāḷha? Is that man capable of crossing the river?” “Yes, sir. Why is that? Because that green sal tree is well worked on the outside, cleared out on the inside, made into a boat, and fixed with oars and rudder. I’d expect that boat to not sink, and the man to safely make it to the far shore.”

an4.196:10 “In the same way, Sāḷha, those ascetics and brahmins who don’t teach fervent mortification in disgust of sin—not regarding it as essential or sticking to it—are capable of crossing the flood. And those ascetics and brahmins whose behavior by way of body, speech, and mind is pure are also capable of knowing and seeing, of supreme awakening. Suppose there was a warrior who knew lots of fancy archery tricks. It is only with these three factors that he becomes worthy of a king, fit to serve a king, and is reckoned a factor of kingship. What three? He’s a long-distance shooter, a marksman, and one who shatters large objects.

an4.196:11 Just as a warrior is a long-distance shooter, a noble disciple has right immersion. A noble disciple with right immersion truly sees any kind of form at all—past, future, or present; internal or external; solid or subtle; inferior or superior; far or near: <em>all</em> form—with right understanding: ‘This is not mine, I am not this, this is not my self.’ They truly see any kind of feeling … perception … choices … consciousness at all—past, future, or present; internal or external; solid or subtle; inferior or superior; far or near: <em>all</em> consciousness—with right understanding: ‘This is not mine, I am not this, this is not my self.’

an4.196:12 Just as a warrior is a marksman, a noble disciple has right view. A noble disciple with right view truly understands: ‘This is suffering’ … ‘This is the origin of suffering’ … ‘This is the cessation of suffering’ … ‘This is the practice that leads to the cessation of suffering’.

an4.196:13 Just as a warrior shatters large objects, a noble disciple has right freedom. A noble disciple with right freedom shatters the great mass of ignorance.”

20. The Great Chapter

Queen Mallikā

an4.197:1 At one time the Buddha was staying near Sāvatthī in Jeta’s Grove, Anāthapiṇḍika’s monastery. Then Queen Mallikā went up to the Buddha, bowed, sat down to one side, and said to him:

an4.197:2 “What is the cause, sir, what is the reason why in this life some ladies are ugly, unattractive, and bad-looking; and poor, with few assets and possessions; and insignificant?

an4.197:3 And why are some ladies ugly, unattractive, and bad-looking; but rich, affluent, wealthy, and illustrious?

an4.197:4 And why are some ladies attractive, good-looking, lovely, of surpassing beauty; but poor, with few assets and possessions; and insignificant?

an4.197:5 And why are some ladies attractive, good-looking, lovely, of surpassing beauty; and rich, affluent, wealthy, and illustrious?”

an4.197:6 “Take a lady who is irritable and bad-tempered. Even when criticized a little bit she loses her temper, becoming annoyed, hostile, and hard-hearted, and displaying annoyance, hate, and bitterness. She doesn’t give to ascetics or brahmins such things as food, drink, clothing, vehicles; garlands, fragrance, and makeup; and bed, house, and lighting. And she’s jealous, envying, resenting, and begrudging the possessions, honor, respect, reverence, homage, and veneration given to others. Because of this, she is ugly, unattractive, and bad-looking; and poor, with few assets and possessions; and insignificant.